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Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The ISK entering the game is balanced by the minerals, loot modules, and LP rewards entering the game. As too much ISK enters circulation, player focus will shift toward other forms of production. This is known as "reaching an equilibrium point" to people who destroy your employment prospects and/or retirement funds on a daily basis.
This is the answer.
There is no need to worry about isk entering the system. It's a self balancing equation, as the isk supply increases relative to raw materials other activities become more lucrative and people shift their activities to compensate.
All this crying on and on about inflation are either idiots who don't understand how currency works (and how isk isn't really a currency anyway) or ISK rich players who want to protect the value of their asset by artificially limiting supply.
So the answer to the OP"s question is We don't need more isk sinks.
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Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:There is no need to worry about isk entering the system. It's a self balancing equation, as the isk supply increases relative to raw materials other activities become more lucrative and people shift their activities to compensate. GǪexcept that as history has shown, they don't, because it's not as self-balancing as that and because people are not willing to switch to other activities.
uhuh once again if this were the case then why aren't prices increasing? Seriously if over supply of isk was such a problem then why don't Domi's cost 200 million isk?
If there really was an over supply of isk then prices would rise across the board. The fact that prices have not done so shows that there is no inflation and most certainly not any hyper-inflation. If anything the actual evidence has suggested a deflationary situation.
Obviously plenty of people are willing to switch to other activities or we would see those price increases I mentioned earlier.
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Most importantly, those other activities don't become more lucrative, because they suffer from limitations of scale that the ISK-generating activities don't quite adhere to. As a result, people rather flock to the activities that further inflates the ISK supply, since that's the only way to stay ahead of the curve.
You're just simply wrong.
You know why more people aren't out mining? Because there is already an over supply of minerals relative to isk. so it isn't worth most peoples time save on a massive semi-afk (or bot) basis. If mineral prices were to rise to the point where mining Veldspar equaled or surpassed what one could make running L4 missions then you can be damned certain you'd see a shift from missions to mining.
Quote:Quote:All this crying on and on about inflation are either idiots who don't understand how currency works GǪsuch as CCP's own economist, who is worried about how the ISK influx is not matched by a corresponding increase in materials generation and production.
Yes such as their own economist who's from what I've seen is a member of the fresh water supply side school of economic thought that's been crying about the threat of inflation in the real economy for years due to quantitative easing (creating money) and have been consistently wrong over said period.
Just your wording tells me you don't really understand whats going on. If the economic activity (all that stuff in the game economy other than farming isk) did not at least match the rate isk was coming into the economy then you'd see evidence of inflation. You don't ergo anyone who insists there is inflation is an idiot.
Evidence always trumps theory those who insist otherwise aren't operating in objective reality.
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Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.21 09:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Idiot. 
*OMG I hate this ******* forum 3 replies ate so far by the ******* timer*
An ad hom is not an argument.
Because I don't feel like line by lining this again for the 4th time I'm just going to address this all at once.\
All the arguments you give for the lack of any evidence of the inflation you tell us is so problematic are at best modifiers to the equilibrium point of when other activities become more lucrative than ISK farming. Though honestly they seem more like excuses and rationalizations to me.
Beyond this you've yet to demonstrate what harm is being caused by this phantom inflation nor have you explained how making isk acquisition more tedious would improve the game.
All I see in all this inflation nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to Nerf L4s.
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Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.11.21 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:An ad hom is not an argument. Then why did you use it? Was your argument so week you felt the need to torpedo it before someone else got the chance?
You make no sense here. Pointing out that people who continue to believe something in the absence of supporting evidence are are idiots is not the same as saying your assertion is wrong because you are an idiot.
Important distinction that determines whether a personal attack actually constitutes a logical fallacy. Saying someone is an idiot for believing something foolish is not an ad hom.
You haven't offered any actual evidence supporting the proposition that there is inflation in the EVE economy, you've offered some rationalizations for why it hasn't manifested but you haven't actually provided evidence that it is actually in existence. This is just like all the real world economists of the Chicago school (you know the one EVE's economist belongs to) who've been harping for years about the threat of run away inflation as a result of quantitative easing. Those with a clue pointed out how such inflation should not be expected and thus far that's what reality has shown us.
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The only one who has all the data and who has any evidence for anything is the guy who says there is, indeed, inflation (or at least there was once they last presented any dataGǪ but they've stopped doing that, so meh).
This discussion has been had before. The fact is he's supplied very limited data. An increase in the isk supply does not automatically result in inflation. Even beyond the question of population growth versus isk accumulation there is the matter of an increased consumption and earning rate as players advance in skill and can start operating more expensive craft.
Basically the lack of inflation as a result of this increase in the isk supply tells us that there is likely a shortage of ISK relative to the over all economy to begin with as such further restrictions on said supply have a greater potential of being disruptive than positive.
You know what's worse that inflation from a monetary standpoint? Deflation, make isk more difficult to acquire and that's the path you are moving on.
Quote:Quote:All I see in all this inflation nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to Nerf L4s. Then you should lay of whatever it is you consume because you're seeing things.
Once again show me the evidence. Don't give me rationalizations of why the evidence isn't visible show me some actual concrete evidence that inflation exists.
I'm telling you right now you won't find it. you won't find it because the nature of how MMO economics works will prevent it from manifesting.
Let me reiterate ISK is not currency in the traditional sense, It's simply one more commodity that people harvest. We could just as easily decided to use trit as an exchange medium and the economy would operated precisely the same as it does now.
ISK supply is self regulating. If inflation devalues isk then people will change activities. Sure not everyone will shift activities due to fluctuations in isk value but if the value shifts sufficiently then enough people will shift activities to balance things out.
This is why we've not seen any evidence of inflation, this is why we won't see any evidence of inflation no matter how many appeals to authority you make. |
Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
52
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zeomebuch Nova wrote:i have not seen a single idea to sink the massive amount of isk from truly ISK flooded wallets.
Almost everyone is aiming to destroy the low/middle class wallets, yet none even said a word about the meaningful isk holders.
i wonder way... oh wait, actually i do not.
If there was any actual inflation that problem would resolve itself. The very fact that people are hoarding isk is indicative of the lack of inflation.
The reason is that inflation is a devaluation of a currency, If there was isk inflation then the ISK squirreled away in thees peoples wallets would be losing value and you'd either reach the point where their wealth ceased to be wealth or they'd put their isk back to work.
This is a large part of the problem with the real world economy. Right now as my companies CEO said back at the beginning of the bust "cash is king" so you have all these companies sitting on large piles of cash rather than investing it, get some inflation going however and that would change, suddenly that cash would be losing value while sitting idle and that would act as an incentive to get it to work.
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